A

Can you tell us your first creative memory? How did you become interested in writing?

AA

I think since a young age I always enjoyed reading. My mother would suscribe to various magazines. Because my dad was in the military, I had spent my younger years moving to different places. I have lived in Makassar, in Solo, before finally living in Jakarta. It was harder to find books in smaller cities in Indonesia so instead my mother subscribed to magazines. I think that was what drew my interest in reading since reading broadens our knowledge eventhough it was for kids. But I think it became the foundation of my interest.

A

What magazines did you read then?

AA

Everything from Bobo, Ananda, Kawanku, or Hai. All sorts of magazines. While my friends would suscribe to only one or two, my mom would suscribe to all kinds of magazines.

A

Did you then make your own short story?

AA

I started when I was in third grade. I made a short story for Bobo that reached up to four folio pages. I was very into it. And it was written by hand.

A

Was there a point where you decided that then on you would want to focus on writing?

AA

I enjoyed doing a lot of things. If I had an idea, I would translate it into words. It would be in the form of rough scribbles. I then got into architecture and I didn’t place much of my focus solely on writing, but I would always be writing articles on architecture and present written concepts at my old office.

A

Where did that interest of architecture form?

AA

If you ask where I got the interest, I don’t think it suddenly came into my interest. Since I was little I enjoyed looking at good homes. Whenever I opened a magazine I would mark the homes I liked the most. How I got into it was simple, when I graduated from highschool we had to choose our subject of choice. I was a science major in high school, but didn’t want to be doing Physics, Maths or the likes. But I also didn’t want to go into social studies either and so I ended up choosing architecture.

A

Didn’t you want to be a dancer?

AA

Oh my mom didn’t allow me to pursue that. I found that to be strange, since I was little , we were told to take dance lessons, but when I asked my mom whether I could join IKJ, she didn’t let me. So I did something else instead.

A

Your book “Perempuan Yang di Hapus Nama” is a compilation of poems highlighting women’s role in the Old Testament. Many have have commened that you have a feminist agenda behind it. Was that your intention?

AA

Maybe there is an intristic awareness that was developed since I was in high school. I studied in an all-girls school called Santa Ursula. They had a good school vision where students were taught to be independent and critical in our thought process. This principle was motivated so we were able to stand for own selves and also to fight for other women who probably went through discrimination of gender. I only recently found out that many of my friends were activists. So eventhough, I feel I am standing up – by being an activist or feminist – informally, I think it may have been cultivated since highschool.

The more I see it now, that the “fight” to help women against discrimination doesn’t only have to be done formally by being a feminist or an activist. We can always start educating our surroundings informally. Take for instance, educating your children from home. We can teach them about rights and responsbilities in gender. We should change our approach from referring that “boys aren’t allowed to cry.” This instead implies, that girls are the weaker genders for being the ones entitled to cry. Things like this can be changed from the home. But to say whether my book has a feminist agenda to it then maybe so, because unconsciously this kind of mindset has always been embedded in me.

A

Have you ever experienced being discriminated personally?

AA

I have been very fortunate that I have never experienced being oppressed or pressured to a point where I felt inferior as a woman. I have never gone through that. There are kids that make fun of me at school from time to time, but I normally stand up for myself.

When I worked as an architect, I would often work on project fields and find myself being teased by the construction workers. They become audacious because the conditions allow them to. But when I approach them to ask the reason why they would call on me in that manner, their attitude towards me would change. They would then stop teasing me because we also treat them with respect. It’s a way of showing that we are co-workers and we should respect one another.

Other than that, I feel I am lucky to have not experienced gender discrimination. I made the book not because what I experienced but because when I was pregnant, I went through a troublesome insomnia and had difficulty sleeping. I still do have insomnia till now. But it was terrible back then. I would sleep at five in the morning for an hour or so. Because of that, I started running out of things to read at home. I would finish books after books, and then what? So I thought, might as well read the Bible because you can spend a really long time reading through it. It has a different tone to it comparing to going to a church and listening to priest preach. By reading through the bible, you understand that it actually has many historial aspects to it. It’s a work of literature that can promote various interpretations.

The more I read it, the more I realized that women in the stories were hid under the carpet. They didn’t even have names. Only a few names were mentioned. All the men had names. And it every inheritance engagement, the women would be receiving less. Events of infidelity, the women would be the one stoned to death where the men would only pay for a penalty.

That really bothered me. No feminist agenda was made then, but it was more of questioning a book of literature full of metaphors that people interpret as a dogma eventhough it is filled with many gaps that needed to be evaluated. So I chose to put out my thoughts in the form of poems. With poems it would be more difficult for people to understand and see it as a critical piece. There would be little chance for a religious extremist to be on my back. [laughs]

A

Through the number of stories you have published, some of them we can find to be slightly dark and ironic. Where does this mindset develop?

AA

I would say it is more about preference. There are too many happy endings in fairytales. I am tired of watching Hollywood movies and its happy endings. I always think that filmmakers should have stopped the film without a positive conclusion. So when I wrote my own story I enjoy a story that has its bitterness compared to solely being a sweet story. I enjoy coffee more than sweets. The more sweets we are presented with, one day we would be less likely to fully enjoy it anymore. But with bitterness, once we are given something sweet, we realize how precious it is and we would fully appreciate it.

A

I read that you enjoy writing because it has a liguistic and grammatical technique in the way architecture has structure. Does that mean you enjoy looking for a certain structure in your life?

AA

Isn’t everyone looking for structure? The only way we can understand life is by order. All chaos is difficult to comprehend. Unconciously we are always faced with a stimulating condition between chaos and order. Chaos is the cosmos. But we actually have the tendency to look for forms and order. If not, we wouldn’t be able to communicate. In its basic form, language is something that has structure, right? If not, we won’t be able to speak. What I enjoy from architecture and literature is that we can always move away from structure to the cosmos. We can always look for new forms. It’s like a never-ending game. When we think its over, it can surprise.

The easiest example is in architecture. There is the basic rule of thumb we follow. In houses there is the public area, the private area, and the semi-private area. Each has its own characteristics. So when we design a house we base it on those basic rules. But there are always rooms to break away from that structure. Take this house for example [Avianti’s house], I can say this is my porch, but this is also where I have my dinner, and this is where I also welcome guests. It crosses the idea of private and public. My corridor can also be said as something semi-private. Visually, you can see through the wooden panels. Those are the boundaries we cross in architecture.

A

How ideal is a built form of architecture for an architect and its inhabitants?

AA

The only ideal architecture is an architect’s home. Because either way, architecture is a client-oriented discipline. Whether it succeeds or not depends on various matters. The first reason can be because of the client itself. There is no good architecture without a good client. When a client is good there are then other parameters that are relative. The success level of architecture depends on the communication between the client and the architect, and how it is then passed on the contractor and other people involved. When we talk about the idealistic aspect of architecture, whose idealism are we talking about here? Idealism is a made up world where the architect has to collide its world with its clients. If both were stubborn in their approach, that nothing would come to fruition. That is why an ideal building for an architect is their own home.

A

Can there be a failed architecture?

AA

Those who are familiar with architecture would know the philosophy of design by Cobusier. His philosophy is one of the most visited ideas in the history of modern architecture. Until this date, he is still one of the references of modern architectural movement. Even though he often becomes a reference point, his architectural work can be said as a failure. If it wasn’t for the World War II, the client could have sued Le Cobusier because he designed a building with a specific insulation that led the client’s child to suffer from lung inflammations. In the end, the owner of the house couldn’t live there and the house became abandoned. Now, the house has become one of the most iconic and modern places. The question whether it is considered a failure or a success depends on how the individual sees it. For me, if a building can be used and serves its function well, then it has fulfilled its purpose. The important aspect in the end is if the one who lives and utilizes the space is happy, even if the design is ordinary.

Different architects have different opinions about this, there are also those who designs to make a breakthrough and to achieve recognition aesthetically.

In the end, we make our own judgments. I still think end users are much more important that the architects ego.

A

What can you say about this current generation of architects in Indonesia?

AA

There are so many architects now. In fact, Indonesia ranks second after Japan to have the most architecture schools in the world. So there are a lot of architects here. I’m not sure why a lot of people want to be an architect.

A

If there are a lot of architects, why can’t we see improvements in the urban planning of Jakarta?

AA

That actually is a false perception to consider that architects are change makers. We have to see its essence. Architecture is a job that is client oriented. When we talk about clients, it doesn’t necessarily have to be an individual. It can be a political, economical, and social condition. Suppose in Soekarno’s era, he needed architecture to be a tool to shape the nation. At the time, he often announced his vision to make Indonesia stand proudly on the same level with the developed countries of the world. He idealized a modern nation. He then transformed Jakarta with modern buildings of Istiqlal, Monas, or Gelora Bung Karno Stadium. Architecture was merely a tool Soekarno could stage and have people view as the face of the nation. Back then, the political condition pushed architecture at the situation.

A

So it depends on the driving force behind it?

AA

Yes. Now we can say the driving force is the economical condition. The capital strength uses architecture as a production tool because we often see them on a cycle. Media and real estate works on a gigantic cycle. Architecture here is used solely for production.

Architecture can of course change the face of a city, but you need to see what forces are behind these changes. If its economical forces, someone needs to control it. If it is the government, that there is possibility of sustaining the urban settings.

Architecture is not an independent institution that can stand on autonomously.

A

What books are you interested in?

AA

I enjoy fiction compared to non-fiction. I think I learn more through fiction. For me, a novel like ‘Invisible City’ by Italo Calvino is far more interesting than reading about reproduction of spatial effect. One book that is about city planning and the other about what cannot be seen in a city, and I learned more through fiction than through the heavyweight theory book.

A

What else do you want to explore?

AA

I have always wanted to write a book for young adults. Something fun. I normally write about love in various forms. But I think I would very much be interested in something more adventurous now. I think its such a shame that nowadays its harder to look for books as ‘Lima Sekawan’, a story about teens in a local context.

I often wonder if it’s because people don’t find using Jakarta as background setting to a story appealing. I mean there are so many things to explore in Jakarta. If we go by train you can see the interaction with other people. Even buying snacks below the crossing bridge of TransJakarta can be exciting.

But We have come to a point where our city has become so advanced that we no longer are in touch with the real setting of life in the city. We have a distance and a fear that eliminates a physical involvement with the city. We don’t have a park. Not many of them. We can’t start a dramatic story of meeting a handsome man in a park. Because we know the people go to a mall instead. Our city analyses us, so it’s difficult to use a local context to a story. Jakarta isn’t always a place to evolve an imaginative storyline although I really want to challenge that and explore writing a story in that context in the future.