C

When did you start to develop a liking for football?

W

Since I was really young, I played every kind of sport. Well, except for one that I didn’t want to do: golf. When I was in Pekanbaru, I was involved in almost every sport, including bowling. It was because I broke my arm that I had to stop. Back then, I was asked to train with a personal trainer. I like every sport; I don’t know why, maybe I inherited the passion from my parents. But for some reason golf never really made an impression on me, even though training was 10 thousand rupiah a month and a small fee for a caddy. All my friends kept pushing me to play with them but I couldn’t, I don’t know why. Volleyball, squash, swimming… I did it all, except that one single sport.

Do any of your family members play sports too?

No. I’m the only one in my family that plays sports. During primary school, I joined my school team as well as my parents’ company team. I was very active in most school sport activities back then: from 2pm to 4pm I would play basketball, from 4pm to 6pm I’d run straight to the football field. For three days a week, that was my schedule. On Saturdays I would join up with the boy scouts (pramuka). It was stressful times living in a village at times. All we find are forests (laughs)! I first encountered an escalator when it first arrived at Pekanbaru in 1990. There was a long queue and people would just keep going up and down, up and down (laughs). It’s stressing. I’m thankful that I have sports as an escape during my time there. I had friends that were extremely mischievous to cure their boredom. While they would throw shirts on the streets, I turned to sports.

C

So you like all sports even until now?

W

I enjoy the sports, yes. But don’t say that I’m excellent at them. Basketball, I played. Even badminton. Sports are something to enjoy, I say. Except for that one, golf.

C

Would you say football is your specialization?

W

Towards the end of it, I would have to say yes. Even though in the end I didn’t play professional football, I managed to join a football team in school. I was asked to play in a company team (Suratin) but by then I actually didn’t want to. But they kept asking and this time they wanted me to play for their manager. But it wasn’t a really pleasurable experience as when I got in the team my friend subsequently got kicked out of the team. That was really hard because I didn’t join the qualification rounds (while he did).

C

And this was since high school?

W

Yes, since high school. But Suratin was based on age back then. Suratin was known in Indonesia as one of the best competitions for player development. Afterwards, PSPS Pekanbaru asked me to join them but I didn’t want to because your pocket money gets taken. So, we got paid Rp. 3000 pocket money but you would only receive Rp. 1500. Corruption was rife back then too. So yes, little things like that didn’t make me want to play professional football. But I regained my love for football when I moved to Jakarta. The football pitch was quite far because all the pitches here are filled with stones, sand and rocks. Meanwhile back in Pekanbaru, fields are all muddy. In the end I joined the basketball team but I regained passion for football again because of a match I was in.

C

Was there a football team or a World Cup event that really made you love football as a child? Or was it from just playing with friends?

W

I think the World Cup in ’82 and ’86 was the trigger for me. I guess everyone likes watching the World Cup, everyone likes football, but the trigger was when I won a bet. The match was aired on TVRI and I betted on Germany. I must’ve been in primary school and I thought to myself, I won! Since that bet I kept betting for Germany. From that I wrote a book about the growth of the German team. I’d predict that next week Germany would play well and things like that. But once I got into football journalism, I stopped doing it because it would affect my position of neutrality. Experience the exhilarating world of online gaming and sports betting with the YesPlay App. Whether you’re a sports enthusiast, a fan of casino games, or someone seeking the excitement of lotteries, YesPlay has got you covered. From football and rugby to blackjack and roulette, you can place your bets and spin the reels with ease. Download the YesPlay APK for Android now and dive into the immersive world of gaming entertainment in South Africa.

C

What was it like to watch football during the early 80s?

W

Not all matches. That’s why to air programs is really expensive. There weren’t a lot of options when watching TV back then, although Pekanbaru had TV3 [a Malaysian TV channel0. So it was really expensive. Very few matches were aired on TV3.

C

Before, did TVRI lean towards a certain league?

W

Yep, the German Bundesliga.

C

Not the English league?

W

The English league came after the Italian league. We’re actually surrounded by premier league minded countries (Singapore, Malaysia, Australia). But for us it’s the Italian Serie-A which got the most coverage. It was only after SCTV started showing Premier League matches that the English league became popular here. Before we were very Italo-centric.

C

Why do you think Indonesia was more focused to the Italian league back in the 80s and 90s?

W

I’m not sure. I feel like there is a link with the price. Back then, when Serie-A was first bought, it was only $300,000 US to broadcast it. The English league was a lot more expensive because of its popularity in Southeast Asia. The Italian league was only popular in this country in the whole of Southeast Asia.

C

What about local teams? Do you have a favorite club?

W

No. I don’t have one because the fans here are a lot wilder and blinder. The Indonesian fan scene is quite dangerous compared to other countries. Try wearing a Persib strip in Jakarta. There’s actually nothing wrong with that but people can be weird here. I once said, “football is for hope, football is for peace.” I also said that there are a lot of life lessons to be taken from football to make life better for us. But why is it that in Indonesia, football make our lives harder?

C

Why do you think that is?

W

There are a lot of factors. Firstly, we have a weak personal filter. Secondly, the media claiming, “bad news is good news” can have a negative impact. I say that bad news does not always mean good news. If we allow, for example, football fights and scams to keep going getting high coverage, five years from now, people will blame violence on our football culture! We are now experiencing this. What we seed is what we’ll sew. We should stop reporting on football related violence as it just spreads the fanaticism.

C

But that isn’t only and Indonesian problem right? There must be other countries that are far worse.

W

Yes, bu twhat is our football culture? We aren’t in a position to say that our football culture is strong. Other countries tense rivalries sure, like River Plate and Boca Juniors in Argentina or Liverpool and Manchester United in England where it’s an ancient rivalry between cities. But as for here? Persija and Persib? Jakarta and Bandung have never had a history of rivalry. So why all the violence? In my opinion it’s ‘steered’ towards that direction.

C

Do you think that the fans’ mindset will change? Or do you think this will last for a few decades?

W

To change something that has been firmly planted needs courage and precision. How many media outlets tell us that ‘bad news isn’t always good news’? Not a lot. They’re only thinking about selling their papers. But as I’ve said before, we (the media) have to push for changes and then hopefully real change will come.

C

Let’s move on to talk about your career in the football scene. When did you start working at Bola? What was the process like?

W

I joined on the 1st of November 1996. Before that I was working at a health magazine for 3 years whilst I was in college. When I was younger, I wasn’t allowed to have a football magazine subscription because my parents had to subscribe to Suara Karya. If you wanted an extra one, it would have to be Kompas. So, I had to go to my neighbor’s house or the school library to read them. Sometimes I would go to my cousin’s house and I’d sneak their copy into my bag quietly. From middle school, that would be routine to read them. Once I started college, I subscribed with my own pocket money.

C

Did you go to college here? What degree did you graduate with?

W

Yes. I moved in 1990. I majored in journalism. That wasn’t the course I originally wanted to do. Until one day I bought ‘Jakarta Jakarta’ magazine with the headline ‘Mass Media Will Make A Boom’. The thought of the mass media rising appealed to me, so I immediately switched courses. The first taste of journalism I had was in high school, since I made the yearbook and contributed some of my writing. I enjoy writing. So when there was a match, whether it was basketball or football, I wrote the report. My pen name was Sly because I was a fan of Sylvester Stallone (laughs). So I thought, why don’t I just continue this? I can make a living, if Jakarta Jakarta’s headline was true, right? I originally wanted to work in television but I thought I’d gather knowledge here at Bola for 5 to 7 year. But once I got married to a woman who worked in televison, I wasn’t allowed to join. She reasoned it was because we won’t ever see each other (laughs). In the end, I didn’t go into TV but I was occasionally called in to be a commentator.

C

So when you first started working in Bola, what did you work as?

W

I was just a reporter on all sports. For one issue, I wrote about 17 scripts and back then it was only one issue a week. Don’t get me wrong, I was very grateful for the opportunity but I definitely got tired. On Sundays I could have up to 3 events to attend to.

C

And now you are the managing editor?

W

Yes, I’m the editor now. I was vice-managing editor for 2 years and before that.

C

Bola itself came out in 1984 and during that time, there was still some influence from Kompas, right? And when did the two separate?

W

It parted ways on the 3rd of March of ’84.

C

You have been here since 1990. Is there a big difference since 1990 till today? Apart from them releasing two issues a week.

W

There has been an increase in competition. The types of competition have also increased. The biggest change I have felt would be the change in reading habits in Indonesia. It has sadly decreased.

C

Why do you think that is?

W

I think it’s due to the change in our culture of instant gratification. People read Twitter and they think they understand everything at an instant. They only read that and they think they don’t have to gather information for other sources. And once they talk to other people, they talk as if they know everything. So the threatening change in mass media is that. Which is why since I was Editor at Sepak Bola Internasional at Bola, I said, “Give them more.” Give them football knowledge. Don’t just give them previews and reviews, but give them actual knowledge. Make them smarter than they were before. So when it comes to discussions with others, they know what they’re talking about.

C

This phenomenon isn’t probably only in sports, right?

W

Sales of books have dropped. People feel they already know what’s inside the book by just looking at its cover. Novelists are having a hard time and books that are of non-fiction are dropping, too. It’s sad that this nation is falling behind. When there’s a change in the world, especially in technology, we’re not ready. For instance, the people of Japan have managed to keep reading books even though the country was experiencing change. We follow the change but we forget and in the end we fall behind. Every time I get a new employee I would ask him or her, “What was the last book you read?”. And they wouldn’t know what to answer. “If not books, then what magazines are you subscribing to?” Sadly, very few people do.

C

It’s funny because you’re asking aspiring journalists.

W

(Laughs) yes exactly, there’s actually a direct link with the job they’re applying for. It’s hard to find someone that’s a bookworm but is also fast with the gadgets. Finding people like that is hard.

C

What do you think makes the Bola tabloids popular here?

W

I think it’s the momentum. The fact that there wasn’t a media that was really serious about sports back then affected our publication’s popularity. Back then there was Tribune Sports but it wasn’t that powerful. But we’re also lucky because we have always been affiliated with Kompas, which has a large distribution area. So yes, I guess it’s the combination of those factors.

C

So for the future, what is the vision for Bola? Will there be a big change in say, online media?

W

We want a combination. Between the existing print media and the new digital version. It’s rare for a digital media, especially when it comes to football, to stand on its own and thrive. The ones that do thrive have their parent companies. For example, goal.com is an international company and Detik is part of Transcorp. And of course there’s the challenge of changing the mindset of readers. But quite honestly, I’m confident that Indonesians are capable of adapting. We all learnt this in science class: the fact that all living things adapt to change in order to survive. Same goes with the mass media and journalists. We have to be adaptive. If we don’t adapt, we will be left behind and will not be a part of change.

C

So are you focusing more on online media?

W

We have to. We are currently redesigning our digital media. We’re sticking firmly by Kompas during this redesigning process.

C

Moving on, what are your thoughts on the level of football coverage and punditry in Indonesia?

W

It’s hard to say because before it was hard for me to get into TV. In 1999 when I was commentating, the requirements were high but now it seems like everyone can be a commentator. Because there are a lot of TV stations now, so there are more opportunities. Everyone has his or her own characteristics and views on football but what I’ve realized are that every a pundit says word has an impact. And local pundits should take this fact into consideration, as people will follow their word.

C

Any examples?

W

Well, I feel pundits view football solely as being a sport. I see football and all sports as a way to make our lives better. When asked to speak at campuses and school, I would always ask “how much time do you have in the AM? 12 hours. Okay. How many hours do you have in the PM? 12 hours. If you play football, how long is the first half? 45 minutes. The second? 45 minutes too.” Well for me that reflects life. Can you make the most of your day? Everything has its order. For instance, why are people brave enough to ride a motorbike without a helmet? And why is a goalkeeper not brave enough to hold the ball outside of his box? They’re both rules, right? But once the keeper steps out of his area, he gets whistled. In real life, you don’t know if you’ll be whistled when riding a motorbike without a helmet. But isn’t it the same? That is something I want to people to see; that football can be seen more than just football. We make it an entertainment for the people so we hope that it is also a way to change for the better.

C

Final question, do you have any memorable experiences during your World Cup or European Cup coverage?

W

Well I’m a huge fan of Zinedine Zidane. I have been chasing him for an interview since the 2000 European Cup and back then he was right in front of me but it turns out he couldn’t do an interview. Fair enough. Then in 2002, a week before a World Cup warm-up match between France and South Korea, I chased him to the changing room but I couldn’t meet him. He subsequently got injured for the rest of the tournament so I couldn’t interview him then either. Then in 2004 to 2005 I went to Real Madrid’s headquarters. I travelled quite far to watch the team train in another city, which I forgot the name of, and he still didn’t want to do an interview. But the worse experience was when Zidane came to Indonesia. I went with my friend from Coca Cola and we swapped IDs. He told me I could have his VIP pass and have a photo session with Zidane himself. After a while his wife and kids walked past but I only wanted to see Zidane. I reached the end of the line and as soon as it was my turn, Zidane yells, “Enough, no more photos!” And he left (laughs).

C

So until now you have never met him?

W

No. And for me, that was the strangest memory. Until he retired I didn’t get to see him (laughs).

C

Well that was a very pleasurable interview. Thanks again for your time.

W

You’re welcome!